(Source)
Let's Adore Jesus-Eucharist! | Home >> Directory of sheep and wolves
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1) Murphy, Brian (2013-November-21)
2) Jetchick, Stefan (2013-November-23)
3) Murphy, Brian (2013-December-25)
4) Jetchick, Stefan (2013-December-30)
5) Murphy, Brian (2014-Jan-01)
6) Donovan, Patrick (2014-Jan-01)
7) Jetchick, Stefan (2014-Jan-02)
8) Donovan, Patrick (2014-Jan-02)
-----Original Message----- From: bgmurphy Sent: 21 novembre 2013 11:57 To: stefan.jetchick.1 Subject: God's Plan For Life and Humanae Vitae Dear Stefan: I would like to propose that your Pro-Life team organize a Humanae Vitae conference for clergy. The speakers would be Fr. Matthew Habiger, Ph.D., O.S.B and myself. Fr. Matt and I have been doing these conferences for the last 13 years in the U.S., Mexico and Kenya. See: www.godsplanforlife.org/conferences/hvprogram.html All that is required is to find a Pastor who is willing to host the event in his parish and provide lunch. Usually about ten priests will come for the two-day event. Naturally, simultaneous translation into French would be required. Our experience has been that priests really appreciate this event. At the end of the conference, I will ask them for a show of hands if they will commit to preach four homilies per year on Humanae Vitae. Usually, the show of hands is unanimous. I am also looking for someone to continue the translation effort of our web site into French. There has been a good start.. Please report any errors. If you study the site, you will see that the strategy is to boldly proclaim the truth of the Church's teachings on love, marriage, family, children and the crucial role of the virtue of chastity for building a culture of life. Sincerely in Christ, Brian Murphy Chairman God's Plan For Life 19 Rosana Way Coto de Caza, CA 92679 www.godsplanforlife.org
-----Original Message----- From: Stefan Jetchick Sent: 23 novembre 2013 13:19 To: bgmurphy Subject: RE: God's Plan For Life and Humanae Vitae Good day Mr. Brian Murphy, Thanks for contacting Pro-Life Quebec City. >> I would like to propose that your Pro-Life team >> organize a Humanae Vitae conference for clergy. Many, many things come to my mind after such a request. 1) Impeccable intention: "to boldly proclaim the truth of the Church's teachings on love, marriage, family, children and the crucial role of the virtue of chastity for building a culture of life" I see nothing wrong with your intention, and I also see the great need for such truths in the moral desert of Soviet Quebekistan, where I currently unfortunately live. 2) Apparently orthodox web site: I obviously can't read your whole web site, but after randomly clicking and reading for about 15 minutes, everything seems quite faithful to the Magisterium of the Catholic Church. And since I try to be as faithful as I can to that same Magisterium, we both agree on many things: A few examples of our many points of agreement: The Winnipeg Statement (yours) The Winnipeg Statement (Mine) The importance still today of condemning heresies, and specific heresies, like: The Primacy of Conscience Heresy (Yours) The Primacy of Conscience Heresy (Mine) I also agree with what reaction we should have with heretics: Yours: "Clandestine heretics are by far the most numerous, the most devious and the most difficult to deal with. They do not publicly proclaim their heresy, so as not to be called heretics. Yet, quietly, they promote it with silent approval of every instance that comes before them. The Church will have the difficult challenge of dealing with clandestine heretics. Yet, the most effective way of dealing with heresy is to go to the source - the heretics. They need to be called to repentance or removed from positions of teaching or pastoral care." (Source) Mine: "Our religious leaders in Quebec have failed us. A small minority has failed us by becoming heretics, and the large majority has failed us by not having the courage to speak up (i.e. by committing sins of omission)." (Source) "According to me, the majority of Quebecers are actually Protestants." (Source) "[...] deal with these people [heretics] according to Canon Law and Canadian Law" (Source) I can't find fault with your pro-life voting advice. Mine isn't as well-summarized, but it's quite clear. Etc, etc. 3) I am apparently the wrong person to organize this: Granted, I could donate two of my work days for the simultaneous French translation of your event. The good news stops about there! Simultaneous translation requires three interpreters a day, so we're looking at about 6 times 700$. Then you need to rent a translation booth, translation receivers, a sound technician, etc. That will set you back over 1000K on top of the interpreters. And that is the easy part. If you browse through my personal web site a bit, you'll see that no Quebec member of the clergy will touch me with a 10-foot pole. (The only one who was less timid, Fr. Guillaume Loddé of the FSSP, went back to France.) You say "All that is required is to find a Pastor who is willing to host the event in his parish". I can't even find a "catholic" priest or bishop who will come to pray one hour for an end to abortion! Tens of thousands of innocent persons are killed every year in this Province, and no priests nor bishops are willing to clearly and publicly state what the Church teaches about abortion. And I've been searching far and wide for almost ten years. So a two-day event on contraception seems like a long shot. You might think there is an easy solution: just avoid me and go straight to the bishops or the priests in this Province. You're welcome to try. I would pray for your success. But I've been living here almost all my life, and going to Mass very often, and I've never heard the words "bad" and "contraception" in the same sentence, coming out of the mouth of a member of the clergy. You say: "At the end of the conference, I will ask them for a show of hands if they will commit to preach four homilies per year on Humanae Vitae. Usually, the show of hands is unanimous." If you can get a bunch of priests from Soviet Quebekistan to preach four homilies per year on Humanae Vitae (other than to attack it!), then you are the Messiah! :-) Seriously, a good buddy of mine, Georges Buscemi, has organized various pro-life conferences in this Province, including one where an actual flesh-and-blood Bishop spoke! (He's gone too.) He's the go-to man in Montreal for such things. >> I am also looking for someone to continue the translation >> effort of our web site into French. I get this request so often I even have a FAQ number for it: 17) "Could you translate this document for that good cause?" So the question becomes: is the task of translating your web site a higher priority than my current best assessment of what needs to be done to help the Church? I think not. Right now, what little spare time and money I have are spent battling with the "catholic" priests and bishops in this Province to have them recognize that God exists, that Jesus Christ is God, and that the Catholic Church is His only Church. Until those foundations are re-established, no use talking about the pill, in my opinion. Another clue as to the gravity of this whole situation is the fact your organization even exists! Imagine if somebody tried to organize some kind of association dedicated to make conferences in front of executives of Greenpeace, to explain to them that we need to protect the environment! Or if somebody tried to make conferences in front of leaders of Alcoholics Anonymous, to make them understand that abuse of alcohol was bad! Those people would be laughed out of business! But people like you and me feel obliged to do what we do, BECAUSE our bishops are not doing their job to defend the Culture of Life! Our bishops are guilty of high treason, and our recent Popes have been less than stellar as far as "making the trains run on time" in the Vatican, i.e. as far as disciplining bishops who teach bad things, or (even more common) who ignore the heretics who disseminate heresies in their own diocese. Anyway, I currently don't have any brilliant suggestions. And I certainly don't want to prevent good people from solving the problem, just because I'm currently depressed because of our lame-duck Pope Francis who is busy sowing even more doctrinal and moral confusion. In Christ, Stefan
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Murphy [bgmurphy (add "at" sign) cox.net] Sent: 25 décembre 2013 10:47 To: Stefan Jetchick Cc: Robert Knebel [RKnebel (add "at" sign) rogers.com]; 'patrick donovan' [dnewera (add "at" sign) videotron.ca] Subject: FW: Subjective Assessment of Cardinal Ouellet Stefan: You should be interested in the response below that I received from my cousin Robert (Bob) Knebel to a request that I submitted to him to review your web site. Bob is an orthodox single Catholic lay person, a graduate of McGill and one who has prayerfully studied the depths of the faith for many decades while performing a spiritual retreat ministry in the Toronto area. He and I communicate frequently and are acutely aware of the crisis of the Church in Quebec, where we both used to live, as well as around the world. In our conversations together by telephone, we applaud your commitment, your zeal and rejoice that someone is fearless in taking a stand - a sorely needed charism. However, we do not support your complete assignment of blame to the clergy. See below. Sincerely in Christ, Brian Murphy Chairman God's Plan For Life 19 Rosana Way Coto de Caza, CA 92679 http://www.godsplanforlife.org (949) 235-4045 (Cell) From: Bob Knebel Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 7:49 PM To: Brian Murphy Subject: Subjective Assessment of Cardinal Ouellet Hi Brian I read the Subjective Assessment Of Cardinal Ouellet that you asked me to review to determine if it is righteous and God"s Will One essential question kept running through my mind : What is the root cause of the deterioration? Stefan's deduction (taken from his website) that the fault belongs with the Clergy goes like this: " Is it God's fault? No." ( I agree with Stefan). " Is it the Pope's fault? No." (I agree with Stefan). " Is it the teachings of the Church? No." ( I agree with Stefan). " Could we finger the Laity?" Stefan says No. I say YES! This is where we reach - as the saying goes -"the parting of the ways". I could end it all here and being a Quebecer like you say "au revoir" but let me proceed without trying to be too intimidating . First of all - I think we can all concede that the problem we are now encountering with the Clergy is nothing new! Our Blessed Mother first warned us of this scandal at La Salette (1846) through a pair of shabby peasant children who bravely and courageously went forth with Her messages only to be vilified and scorned because they had spoken the truth. She described the developing scandal and prophesied the problem in Her Son's Church that would come to a crescendo in the end times as a scandal involving wayward Priests, Bishops. and Cardinals. At no time during her apparitions at La Salette did Mary advise that this problem could be rectified by scrutinizing the Clergy - a course that Stefan persues. The same applies to Lourdes and Fatima. How to accomplish the correction? The answer from Lourdes, Fatima and La Salette is simple and the same. There are two means. One is Prayer. The other is Penance.There is no mention about 'fingering" our Clergy as a way to rectify the problem. That may be man's way - not The Lord's. Stefan then goes on to make a rather vague statement that " the Laity is no better or worse than in "the good old days". Does he have any solid data to back this up? If not - I suggest he take a good look at Michael Voris' video (Church Militant TV) that you recently (Sept.30.2013) forwarded to me via email titled :Dispatch from the front lines. Your comment (Brian) on Oct.3,2013 indicated that you did not realize that the collapse was so bad in the U.S.and it could be the Great Apostacy. Although Voris' study deals mainly with the U.S.- from what Stefan indicates - the situation in Quebec is just as bad or worse! Without sufficient solid backing to support that it is not the Laity's fault Stefan seems "eager" to proceed to "tackle" the Clergy. It's always great to "wash our hands"by pointing the finger at the "other" guy .Stefan creates the impression that the Clergy and in this case Cardinal Ouellet are the culprits. Although you have to give him cudos for standing up and being counted - he negates this effort by heading in the wrong direction with his "lets get at the Clergy" syndrome. In effect, the opposite is true. WE (the Laity) are the culprits of this degeneration. Because we are not praying enough and doing enough penance - priests are not getting sufficient graces and consequently the faithful are not getting led properly. Having reviewed Stefan's website (but not in detail) - I realize that he is amongst those who are in the category.of praying and doing penance.Terrible events can be prevented by an individual praying alone - but in many cases this is not enough. We must call on our friends and acquaintances to come together in groups of prayer. A lot goes back to our recent correspondence whereby St. Pius V was quoted as saying regarding the root causes of the evils which surround us:" All evils of the world are due to LUKEWARM Catholics".Stefan touches on lukewarm Catholics on his website - although shunts its importance aside along with the matter of prayer in order to get to the "meat of the matter "- The Clergy. I do not believe that Stefan's Subjective Assessment of Cardinal Ouellet is righteous and God's will. To me - it would be in line with Divine Will if Stefan took a different "tact" or approach:. "Have you caught anything, friends? ' and when they answered "no" He said: " Throw the net out to STARBOARD and you'll find something." (Jn. 21:5-6) Stefan is in the 'right boat" but rather than throwing his net on the port side (Cardinal Ouellet) - he should try the starboard tact. As a suggestion this starboard tactic could take the form of Prayer Groups titled "Mea Culpa Cenacles" originating with "several buddies in the Diocese"and" informants" mentioned in his website and under the auspices of Our Blessed Mother. Family, friends and acquaintances could be added as mentioned above. The main focus of these Cenacles would be to pray and do penance for Clergy. First up on the agenda would be Cardinal Ouellet. Who knows -"a storm of Holiness" could emerge to clean up the Church in Quebec along with a Good & Joyful Inquisition which Stefan purports on his website. Basically - it's back to the fundamentals. It may seem like a step backward but oftentimes we are on the right track (in the boat) but reluctant to take that last "chicky step"(starboard cast) - see II Kings 5:10 where Elisha tells Nathan to bathe 7 times in the Jordan. It sounds ridiculous - but that is what he must do to cleanse his flesh. Not five - not six but seven! ( As an aside - Fatima specifically requests that Russia be mentioned. From Heaven's standpoint - alluding to the World doesn't qualify! Regarding Stefan's website - I was impressed particularly with the references to the ten heresies, along with the FAQ, and the satanic spirit of Vatican II. I agree that we should stand up to Clergy who profess a different Gospel than the Magesterium. However - based on the above - I wish Stefan would take a more positive tact and start by removing the Subjective Assessment Of Cardinal Ouellet from his website. If he does not remove this article - then he should at least clearly state at the start that it is "us" not 'them"(Clergy) who are responsible for the current crisis in the Clergy. Another alternative would be to eliminate the entire article except for the last sentence - ' I guess I need to increase prayer,fasting, alms- giving and mortification..." Right on "- but do it in Cenacles (groups) to give it "a knockout punch". As mentioned above - this is the extra "chicky step" which I feel he may be reluctant to take! I pray not. Stefan's remarks about Pope John Paul II and how "he had the unfortunate habit of naming Bishops who were well known for their "very diplomatic' approach ( I would say "effeminate") "should not be mentioned. Stefan is "out of bounds" on this one - even though it is his own opinion and he "loves" J.P.II. This does not build up the body of Christ and tends to negate (my) esteem for J.P.II whom I also love. Nor does his "scrutiny" of Ouellet build up the body of Christ. Again - I see another "loose canon' shot taken at Pope Francis in his email to you where he states " ...our lame duck Pope Francis who is busy sewing even more doctrinal and moral confusion". For gosh sakes - give our new Pope a break! He has hardly "stepped up to the plate" and He's being labelled a strikeout! It could very well be that The Lord has put Pope Francis there to instigate the very work ( cleasning and purifying the Church) - that Stefan wishes to accomplish. However the Pope alone cannot be successful in ferreting out those who are doing the work of the evil one without our prayers and sacrifice which is lacking . We must augment our efforts including the employment of group prayer! To lend support that it is our fault and not the Clergy - I would like to add a quotation from St. John Eudes: " The most evident mark of God's anger and the most terrible castigation He can inflict upon the world are manifested when He permits His people to fall into the hands of clergy who are priests more in name than in deed, priests who practice the cruelty of ravening wolves rather than the charity and affection of devoted shepherds.... " When God permits such things, it is a very positive proof that He is thoroughly angry with HIS PEOPLE, and is visiting His most dreadful anger upon them. That is why he cries unceasingly to Christians, " Return, O ye revolting children...and I will give you PASTORS according to My own heart" (Jer.3,14:15). Thus, irregularities in the lives of priests constitute a scourge visited upon the people in consequence of sin.." Today we have infiltration of all kinds into the priesthood , because - among other reasons - many in the Church have stopped doing prayer and social penance. But it is also due to our collective sins. We do not pray and sacrifice enough for them. This scandal is a wakeup call to each and every one of us, EVEN THE GOOD, to do penance. Blessings and as they say in La Belle Province IL est ne, Le Divin Enfant Say Hi and Greetings to Louise and all your Family Bob K.
-----Original Message----- From: Stefan Jetchick Sent: 30 décembre 2013 13:54 To: Brian Murphy Cc: Robert Knebel; 'patrick donovan' Subject: RE: Subjective Assessment of Cardinal Ouellet Good day again Mr. Brian Murphy, (And good day Mr. Robert Knebel and Mr. Patrick Donovan,) Terribly sorry about the long delay. >> we do not support your complete assignment of blame to the clergy. I don't blame the clergy exclusively, but I guess that wasn't clear enough since you missed it. So I added a distinction between the order of holiness, and the order of science, in my analysis of who is to blame for the state of the Church in Quebec. I also added headers to clarify why we should criticize the clergy, including a quote from the seer of La Salette, for which I'm eternally grateful to your cousin. I never would have thought of quoting the Virgin Mary! And to think our Blessed Mother was even speaking FRENCH when she said those thing! So appropriate! I owe your cousin and you a huge pizza or something! >> You should be interested in the response below that I received >> from my cousin Robert OK, let's dig into his feedback! >> What is the root cause of the deterioration? [...] >> " Is it God's fault? No." ( I agree with Stefan). >> " Is it the Pope's fault? No." (I agree with Stefan). >> " Is it the teachings of the Church? No." ( I agree with Stefan). OK, so far so good. >> "Could we finger the Laity?" Stefan says No. I say YES! >> This is where we reach - as the saying goes - "the parting of the >> ways". I could end it all here and being a Quebecer like you say "au >> revoir" Well, you could, but then Logic would slap you upside the head with a big: "Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur"! ;-) Seriously, we need to put on a balance the arguments For, and the arguments Against, then decide which side "weighs" more. Just saying one disagrees isn't enough, of course. >> the problem we are >> now encountering with the Clergy is nothing new! [...] At no time >> during her apparitions at La Salette did Mary advise that this >> problem could be rectified by scrutinizing the Clergy - a course >> that Stefan pursues. This seems like a new marketing twist to sell an old heresy. Kind of like slapping endearing pictures of the Virgin on Quietism. This is even funnier when you consider this made me go read what the Virgin Mary said at La Salette, since She not only scrutinizes the clergy, but gives the clergy one heck of a blast of criticism! >> How to accomplish the correction? The answer from Lourdes, Fatima and >> La Salette is simple and the same. There are two means. One is >> Prayer. The other is Penance. There is no mention about 'fingering" >> our Clergy as a way to rectify the problem. Please Mr. Knebel, go do your homework! >> "the Laity is no better or worse than in "the good old days". >> Does he have any solid data to back this up? Sure. It's called Sociology. I know Sociology has a bad reputation among good Catholics, because there are so many bad sociologists around. But the Science of Sociology exists, and can be well-conducted: The Method of Sociology I'm not saying that if you took a statistically-significant sample of French-Canadian laity today, and compared that to another sample of French-Canadian laity of yesteryear, you would not find a large increase in the moral corruption of today's sample. Of course you would. I totally agree that today's average French-Canadian is far more corrupt than yesteryear's. What I am saying is that if you could somehow take today's sample, make all those French-Canadians into babies again, then have them raised in the atmosphere of yesteryear (an atmosphere produced mostly by the influence of good clergy), and took yesteryear's sample, made all those into babies too, and have them raised in today's corrupt and pagan atmosphere (an atmosphere produced mostly by the influence of bad clergy), you would not notice a significant difference between the corruption of today's sample compared with yesteryear's sample raised in today's atmosphere, nor would you find a significant difference in the holiness of yesteryear's sample, compared with today's sample raised in yesteryear's atmosphere. This is what I mean when I say: "In my infantry officer's course, I was taught that in a large group of soldiers, what made the difference was the quality of the officers." The quote from the Curé d'Ars says the same thing in different words. >> Without sufficient solid backing to support that it is not the >> Laity's fault Stefan seems "eager" to proceed to "tackle" the >> Clergy. "Without sufficient backing"? Hello? Do you have any idea what the typical French-Canadian layperson is up against in this Province? Let's imagine French-Canadian layperson who appears out of the blue, with only a Baptismal Certificate and a blank mind. What is he going to learn in school? Not Catholicism: teaching Catholicism, even in private Catholic schools, is now illegal, thanks to our Bishops. What can a layman do when his own Bishops tell the Government that taking away our Catholic schools is OK? You would blame the layman for not saying enough Rosaries? What is he going to learn in church? Typical Liberal Protestantism. He will learn that abortion is fine, that we automatically go to Heaven, that the Word of God and the Eucharist are not important, that the Spirit of Vatican II is wonderful, that all religions are equal, that the Catechism of the Catholic Church is not a binding document, etc, etc... What can an unprepared layman do when this is what is taught in churches? Is it reasonable to ask the laity to go anywhere but in Catholic churches to learn about their religion? You would blame the layman for not saying enough Rosaries? Can this layman expect any relief from new Priests coming out of Seminaries in the Province of Quebec? Come with me, and we'll examine what fruits are coming off of that tree, especially here in the Diocese of Quebec! Can the laity control what is going on inside the Seminary? You would blame the layman for not saying enough Rosaries? "Without sufficient backing"? I can back up every single accusation I make on my web site, normally with things I've seen and heard myself. I can take you to parishes and make you talk to Priests who claim that Jesus didn't cause Transubstantiation when he instituted the Eucharist, or that abortion is fine, or that the Pope is not infallible when speaking "ex cathedra", or that Hell is empty (or inexistant), etc. Our local Bishop, after three years of silence, has published his first Pastoral Letter, in which he encourages the laity to go to "Liturgies of the Word" lead by a layperson, for Sunday Obligation, instead of driving 5 more minutes to go to a real Mass with a real Priest... >> It's always great to "wash our hands" by pointing the >> finger at the "other" guy. True, but sometimes it does happen that the other guy is guilty. Come here, and we will make a list of all the problems in the Catholic Church in Quebec, and then we will see who has the authority to fix those problems, the laity or the Bishops. >> Stefan creates the impression that the >> Clergy and in this case Cardinal Ouellet are the culprits. I "create the impression"? And about Cardinal Ouellet: I give a detailed list of accusations. Why don't you explain, item by item, why these accusations are false? Because they are true. Each one of them could be proven in a court of law, with supporting documents (most of them signed by Ouellet himself) and plenty of witnesses. And I explicitely claim Ouellet is the least bad Bishop in the Province! That's not exactly blaming Ouellet for all our evils! >> WE (the Laity) are the culprits >> of this degeneration. Because we are not praying enough and doing >> enough penance - priests are not getting sufficient graces and >> consequently the faithful are not getting led properly. I totally agree the laity shares part of the blame, but certainly not the biggest part. Responsibility for a disaster is proportional to authority over the means to avoid that disaster. For example, the bus driver has the authority over the steering wheel, so he is to blame if the bus steers over the cliff. Go read the Code of Canon Law. The Bishop have almost autocratic authority over his diocese. He can yank any Priest out of any Parish for just about any reason (rumor is our local Bishop manoeuvred to expel Loddé back to France because he was overtly pro-life). He can accept any candidate in the Seminary and make him breeze into the Priesthood. He can exalt any layperson he wants (currently, in the Diocese of Quebec, almost all decisions are currently taken by Marie Chrétien). The laity have almost no authority. And you would saddle them with the majority of the responsibility? Because they didn't say enough Rosaries? Wow! At least, if Bishops were democratically elected like our Members of Parliament, we could do the math: 80 000 votes for the MP in my riding (approx.), and my MP sucks, therefore I have 0.0000125 of the blame. Well, no actually, since I didn't vote for him. I'm absolutely not in favor of elected Bishops (the Catholic Church is not a democracy), but that does illustrate a real situation where you can "blame a layman", if he didn't vote well. Except the laity has no control over who becomes a Bishop. And only one person on Earth can remove a corrupt Bishop. What I find even more hilarious is that the Clergy passes your exam with a perfect score! They can't do any wrong! Our Bishops are perfect! Hum, I think I've seen something like that before! The Catholic Omertà >> "All evils of the world are due to LUKEWARM Catholics". ... especially lukewarm members of the Clergy! ;-) >> I do not believe that Stefan's Subjective Assessment of Cardinal >> Ouellet is righteous and God's will. "Believe"? Have you done your homework? Moreover, I certainly don't "believe" Ouellet is perfectly guilty! I, on the contrary, am on the record (on the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, when I was interviewed by several CBC reporters after the press conference of Ouellet where he announced he was called back to Rome) as saying he was the best we had in Quebec. A local Priest even told me one of his friends in **Romania** saw that report and heard my words! >> this starboard tactic could take the form of >> Prayer Groups titled "Mea Culpa Cenacles" I'm all in the favor of praying and doing penance for the Clergy, especially the Bishops (since what few good Priests are left in Quebec are normally persecuted by their own Bishops). But I do doubt I could make all these people sit quietly without laughing if I tried to tell them the laity was mostly to blame! They would laugh me out of the house! >> I wish Stefan would take a more >> positive tact and start by removing the Subjective Assessment Of >> Cardinal Ouellet from his website. Please see your homework assignment above. >> he should at least clearly state at the start that >> it is "us" not 'them" (Clergy) who are responsible for the current >> crisis in the Clergy. Please go re-read why the laity can and should criticize the clergy. >> Stefan's remarks about Pope John Paul II [...] Stefan is "out >> of bounds" on this one Please go re-read why the laity can and should criticize the clergy. >> Nor does his "scrutiny" of Ouellet build up the >> body of Christ. Why "scrutiny" in scare quotes? As opposed to you, I've been living almost all my life here, in the diocese where Ouellet was for 8 years. I met him several times, read most of his doctrinal documents, sent him many letters, spoke with many Priests close to him, etc. Why don't you carefully scrutinize what I accuse Ouellet of? If you don't, you're accusing me of slandering my Bishop without proof. You are committing the serious sin you are accusing me of! Don't slander me, go do your homework! I did mine! >> For gosh sakes - give our new Pope a break! He has >> hardly "stepped up to the plate" and He's being labelled a >> strikeout! Pope Francis has not "hardly stepped up to the plate". He has been Pope for over nine months, and has already had plenty of opportunities to swish his baseball bat through the air, while simultaneously missing the ball: The Private Jet Of Pope Francis >> It could very well be that The Lord has put Pope >> Francis there to instigate the very work (cleansing and purifying >> the Church) - that Stefan wishes to accomplish. That would be so swell! But given the direction he has already clearly taken, I have my doubts. But since you didn't carefully read what I said about Cardinal Ouellet, I doubt you'll carefully read what I say about Ouellet's boss. >> However the Pope >> alone cannot be successful in ferreting out those who are doing >> the work of the evil one Please, he's not even trying! Ferreting out the wolves in the sheepfold is very easy: The Anti-Post-Modernist Oath >> To lend support that it is our fault and not the Clergy - I would >> like to add a quotation from St. John Eudes Assuming the quote is correct, it targets people who have revolted. I haven't revolted. I believe everything the Holy Mother Church teaches and believes. I try my best to be a saint. There are many others like me. We are guilty for the bus having fallen off the cliff, even though we don't control the steering wheel? We are guilty, even though we are the ones asking for our Bishops and our Priests to stop revolting against Christ and His Magisterium? Wow... I don't know what you're smoking, but it isn't tobacco! :-) >> many in the Church have stopped >> doing prayer and social penance. But it is also due to our >> collective sins. We do not pray and sacrifice enough for them. >> This scandal is a wakeup call to each and every one of us, EVEN >> THE GOOD, to do penance. Yes, once again, I totally agree with prayer and penance, even if we haven't personally done anything wrong. What I disagree with is the happytalk that ignores the elephant in the sacristy (the corruption of Bishops), while simultaneously criticizing the faithful remnant of laypersons who are slugging it out in the trenches, battling the Leftist Media, the evermore tyrannical Government, the baby-killing feminist witches, the homofascists, etc., all of this while trying to raise children and pay the bills, while the Clergy is shooting them in the back... I don't know much about you or your organization, but so far, every time I've seen such happytalk, somebody was receiving money from the clergy. In your case, maybe you would not be able to put your foot in the door of any diocese, if you dared to mention "the elephant in the sacristy". So you would lose money. Also, I'd love to hear the opinion of the chap called "Very Reverend Charles Wright, OSB" mentioned on your web site. Normally priests can see the elephant as well as anybody else, but they are so terrified of their corrupt Bishops that they don't dare speak. In Christ, Stefan
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Murphy Sent: 1 janvier 2014 00:24 To: 'Stefan Jetchick' Cc: 'Robert Knebel'; 'patrick donovan' Subject: RE: Subjective Assessment of Cardinal Ouellet Stefan: Thank you for your thoughtful reply. In one respect your arguments are very logical and sound. In another respect, we will never know what the Church might be today if the laity had done the following: 1. Not rebelled 2. Stayed faithful in prayer and penance Nor do we know what avalanche of blessings would flow if everyone obeyed Mary's current requests for prayer and penance. My personal objective is to work on that first. This is a spiritual debate for which the final answer is not crystal clear. Personally, I refrain from public criticisms because I spent decades in sin and indifference. I am happy to be forgiven but not quite willing to push the good deal that I got from heaven too far. I constantly ask myself if this is humility or cowardice. Also, the situation here in California is not quite as bad as in Quebec. The Churches are full and people are trying very hard to serve the Lord. I will say, that like you, many who share our concern for the Church would rejoice if the bishops started firing the clandestine heretics and the Pope started firing the bishops who refused to fire the clandestine heretics. Sincerely in Christ, Brian Murphy Chairman God's Plan For Life
-----Original Message----- From: patrick donovan Sent: 1 janvier 2014 14:51 To: Stefan Jetchick Cc: patrick donovan Subject: Yours of Dec. 30, 2013---Patrick Dear Mr. Stefan Jetchick, 'Best of God's blessings in the New Year! I have carefully read your document of 30 December, 2013. I thank you and commend you on the clarity of your thinking. I encourage you to move forward withut fear. In your writing you state: "I can take you to parishes and make you talk to priests who claim Jesus didn't cause the Transubstantiation when He instituted the Eucharist." I do not doubt your statement. The real problem is that this argument exposes the Achilles heel of the Roman Catholic Church. Either Jesus is present in the wine after consecration or He is not. If the wine has truly been changed to His Blood, it would have to have an acceptable Blood Alcohol Level [BAC] to permit life. Before consecration, the alcohol level in the wine is 11.5% [or thereabouts]. A small amount of water is added to the wine- reducing the alcohol level to greater than 9%. After consecration, the Blood Alcohol Level iremains greater than 9%. At that level, if the wine is truly Jesus Blood, Jesus is either dead -or in a coma as a result of alcohol poisoning. This is a matter of fact -vs.- belief. Science has trumped faith. How do we know what has happened? In Quebec 9% BAC is more than 115 times the legal limit. Quebec drivers who have been convicted of DUI [Driving Under the Influence]. sometimes called DWI [Driving While Intoxicated'] are often sentenced to mandatory recovery; court ordered attendance at 12 step programs; and are often required to install an Ignition Interlock Device [IID] or Breath Ignition Interruption Device [BIID] in their vehicles. For those restricted to zero tolerance, all it takes is one very small sip of the "Blood" to put them "over the line." Their car won't start. Such persons are well advised: "Don't drink the Blood." From what you write, it seems some of the priests in the Quebec area may be prepared to discuss and debate this matter. The subject certainly is not closed. Again, I thank your for your writings. Please continue your good work. Jesus is Lord! Patrick Donovan
-----Original Message----- From: Stefan Jetchick Sent: 2 janvier 2014 14:56 To: Brian Murphy Cc: 'Robert Knebel'; 'patrick donovan' Subject: RE: Subjective Assessment of Cardinal Ouellet Good day Mr. Brian Murphy and Mr. Patrick Donovan, >> Best of God's blessings in the New Year! Thank you! Same to both of you! >> we will never know >> what the Church might be today if the laity had done the following: >> 1. Not rebelled >> 2. Stayed faithful in prayer and penance Well, strictly speaking, God knows (God knows what is technically known as "future contingents", see Summa Theologica, Ia, Q. 14, A. 13), so we can ask God if we get to Heaven, and He will tell us. But I agree with you, prayer and penance is always an improvement for the Church, whether it is done by the laity or the clergy (or even better, by both! :-) >> Nor do we know what avalanche of blessings would flow Yes, I agree with you, we would be "hit" by a nice avalanche if we obeyed Mary's current requests for prayer and penance. >> My personal objective is to work on that first. It is one of my objectives too! >> Personally, I refrain from public criticisms I try to refrain too, except when Faith is attacked. Then the Church teaches us we have to speak out (respectfully, of course): 3) Why can we publicly criticize a superior? >> the >> situation here in California is not quite as bad as in Quebec. Enjoy it! Sometimes I feel like moving back to the USA! >> like you, many who share our concern for the Church >> would rejoice if the bishops started firing the clandestine heretics >> and the Pope started firing the bishops who refused to fire the >> clandestine heretics. If that happened, I would party for a week! :-) Personally, I think if Pope Francis just did what you wrote, we would also be "hit" by a huge avalanche of blessings! * * * Now, for the somewhat strange reply of Mr. Patrick Donovan. >> The real problem is that this argument exposes the >> Achilles' heel of the Roman Catholic Church. Ah, so you're a Protestant. Sorry, I didn't know. OK, let's look into your argument. >> Either Jesus is present in the wine after consecration >> or He is not. Actually, there is no wine after Transubstantiation. The wine doesn't exist anymore. Only the "accidents" of wine. The substance of wine is totally gone. There are many explanations on the Internet. This one is a good start: Transubstantiation by Frank J. Sheed A quick excerpt: "The senses can no more perceive the new substance resulting from the consecration than they could have perceived the substance there before. We cannot repeat too often that senses can perceive only accidents, and consecration changes only the substance. The accidents remain in their totality - for example, that which was wine and is now Christ's blood still has the smell of wine, the intoxicating power of wine. One is occasionally startled to find some scientist claiming to have put all the resources of his laboratory into testing the consecrated bread; he announces triumphantly that there is no change whatever, no difference between this and any other bread. We could have told him that, without the aid of any instrument. For all that instruments can do is to make contact with the accidents, and it is part of the doctrine of transubstantiation that the accidents undergo no change whatever." >> If the wine has truly been changed to His Blood, it would >> have to have an acceptable Blood Alcohol Level [BAC] >> to permit life. As said above, your long and contorted argument just kicks down an open door: the Catholic Church teaches that all the accidents of wine remain (among others the intoxicating capabilities of wine). >> Science has trumped faith. More like: Your ignorance has trumped your credibility! Make sure you actually read what the Church teaches before criticizing Her! Cheers, Stefan
-----Original Message-----
From: patrick donovan
Sent: 2 janvier 2014 19:14
To: Stefan Jetchick
Cc: patrick donovan
Subject: Re: Subjective Assessment of Cardinal Ouellet
Dear Mr. Jetchick,
Thank you for your prompt rely.
Frank J. Sheed died on 20 November, 1981 and
cannot be called as a witness. The case is expected to be tried on the law
and the evidence. The prosecution is expected to argue Aristotlean substance
and essence
[ouisa]; i.e. empirical evidence.
Both Sheed's writings and your comments support
the final point in my note to you:
"Such persons [IID and BIID useers] are well advised:
Don't drink the Blood."
Thank you for your support-and for your respectful courtesy.
Jesus is Lord, Patrick Donovan
Standard end of debate disclaimer ("Why don't you always have the last word in e-mail debates?" )
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